Forum:Racism in Mass Effect
Hey, so has anyone else noticed that Mass Effect's writers used some pretty offensive stereotypes in creating some of the different species for the games. The Volus look like something out of a Gestapo propaganda movie or a Truther conspiracy theory (physically inferior, control the banks, universally seen as deceitful/greedy, tend to be moneylenders/merchants/bankers, etc.). Somewhat less obvious are the Quarians who - according to the backstory - are basically gypsy stereotypes (treated as second-class citizens, seen as thieves because they tend to suck an entire solar system's resources dry, extremely insular, etc.). Even if this is just lazy writing (something the ME team are hardly unknown for) why has it gone unnoticed? PS - I forgot about Jacob Taylor. You know, the guy who if he was your romance option sleeps with another woman AND knocks her up. Very subtle dev team. :You're reading too much into it. It looks like you're either a PC thug or someone who likes to start provoking threads. If I were a literary professor, my class was covering The Iliad, and one of my students compared the Trojan War to Vietnam, I would fail them. You seem a bit too much like the student in that example. --Darth Something (talk) 00:38, August 21, 2012 (UTC)--Darth Something (talk) 00:38, August 21, 2012 (UTC) :Because a lot of what you are saying just isn't true. For example, the volus not "universally seen as deceitful/greedy". They are very highly regarded and seen as extremely trustworthy. Nor is there any indication that they are greedy. They merely gravitate toward less physically demanding fields such as trade and commerce due to their physical stature. This is a common theme in sci-fi. Ditto for the quarians. The quarians are actually depicted rather romantically in the games, wandering the stars while seeking to reclaim their lost homeworld. Many quarian characters are presented as noble, relatable characters the audience is meant to like. The stereotypes you point out are the in-game views some of the other races have toward them, which are portrayed in-game as being a bit bigoted. No, I've not seen any such offensive stereotypes in the species of Mass Effect. Rather, I've seen races that, by and large, fit typical sci-fi archetypes. SpartHawg948 (talk) 00:33, August 21, 2012 (UTC) :As for Jacob, yes, he does end up with another woman even if you romanced him in ME2. So what? Shepard was arrested, indefinitely. As Jacob himself asks, was he supposed to put his life on hold? He does impregnate the new woman. And then he stays loyal to her. Hardly fits the stereotype you claim it does. That's not racism. It's plot and character development. All these examples seem like real stretches, attempts to find racism where none exists. SpartHawg948 (talk) 00:36, August 21, 2012 (UTC) Just because the quarians are inspired by the gypsy culture and history doesn't mean that they're meant to invoke racism. --Mr. Mittens (talk) 00:56, August 21, 2012 (UTC) :Yes, there is racism in the game. Why? Because real life has racism. A universe praised for its realism needs to include something that's unmistakably prevelant in our own world. It would be fantastical if there wasn't any racism. The terrorism from batarians, quarians migrating everywhere, greedy volus (not dissimilar to goblins from WoW which has other real-world parallels), and the council races being a bit high-and-mighty. These are all here because the real world has them. The BioWare dev team isn't racist, they're just taking from our own world and making social critisms on them. :Darth Something - wow man, a PC thug? this thread might be a little inflammatory but you have to admit there is something about injecting real-life ethnic stereotypes into a piece of fiction without anyone calling foul that's a little bothersome. I wouldnt have a problem with this if the Volus weren't so tasteless. It's almost as bad as Jar Jar Binks being a 3d minstrel show in the phantom menace. - OP ::I'm not super keen on repeating myself, but I note that you failed to address any of my points, and some more nonsensical "examples"have been added in another post. So... let's see. Batarians - some of them are portrayed as terrorists. Not all. And guess what? There are also examples of turian and human terrorists in the Mass Effect franchise. The majority of batarians are not terrorists, but are rather subjects of their insular regime. Not all batarians are portrayed as terrorists, as they take great pains to show. Quarians - covered this. It's a typical sci-fi archetype, and you also have to factor in that, in most cases, quarians are portrayed favorably. The prejudice against them is shown in-game as a stereotype, and the people engaging in it are usually portrayed as jerks. Remember the side mission on the Citadel in ME3 with the quarian accused of stealing? Again, the volus are not portrayed as greedy. I don't know where people are getting that from. They are depicted as community-minded, trustworthy individuals whose physical stature causes them to have a natural inclination toward commerce and trade. Again, not an uncommon sci-fi archetype. And the Council races themselves are depicted fairly reasonably. It's their representatives on the Council who are portrayed as high-and-mighty. The turians themselves may appear a bit arrogant, but that is fully in keeping with the fact that their culture is based on that of the ancient Romans. ::Racism is depicted as a bad thing in the series, and you have yet to demonstrate any offensive stereotypes represented by any of the races in-game. SpartHawg948 (talk) 05:25, August 21, 2012 (UTC) I think you're drawing parallels based on very broad generalisations and very few facts. The aspects of the quarian depiction you mention are very logical consequences of their exile after the morning War, not some cheap emulation of the supposed gypsy life-style. More importantly, even though the general view on the quarians is not favourable (thieving beggars), the whole setting of the game defies, not strengthens, the attitude. So, while it is certainly legitimate to discuss the issue of racism in ME, accusing authors of it, or of lazy writing in this case, is definitely not.--Ygrain (talk) 07:45, August 21, 2012 (UTC) Volus seem to be portrayed as Space Jews as far as I see it - with their "sell, sell, sell, I have a record of every single credit you owe me, with interest." Hell, listen to the one shorting prefabs on Illium, or even worse, the one in Presidium Commons talking to the woman about Sanctuary. --Kainzorus Prime Walkie-talkie 08:37, August 21, 2012 (UTC) I agree with everything that SpartHawg is saying. Most of the examples you have come up with are more based on individuals than the species as a whole. And even the negative stereotypes are challenged again and again by Shepard throughout the series. On a completely different side note though, stereotypes are often employed in works of fiction to easily differentiate "good" people from "bad" people for the audience. Using stereotypes is basically just a writing tool, whether you agree with it or not, but thankfully I think that Bioware has bucked that by having every species be full of good and bad members. @Kainzorus Prime, how is the one shorting prefabs on Illium demonstrative of his whole race? There's also a volus on the Citadel that is convincing members of the bank to keep their accounts open so that the Volus banking firms can lend huge amounts of money to the war effort for little to no interest on good faith. There's Asari on Illium who utilize indentured servants, Turian smugglers who want to make off with medical supplies intended for the war effort, and Human looters during the Omega plague. Point being that their are scumbags in any race, so I don't see how the volus are "Space Jews". Tiredman2 (talk) :A stereotypical view of a jewish person in the western world is that they're greedy, and usually are bankers, money lenders, etc. And the Volus are playing off this stereotype quite well, as far as I see it. --Kainzorus Prime Walkie-talkie 14:42, August 22, 2012 (UTC) BOOK OF PLENIX - The volus species are not all greedy. Their very racial doctrine demands they freely lend money in times of war. Phylarion (talk) 13:22, August 21, 2012 (UTC) There is racism in Mass Effect, but Mass Effect is not racist. Fiction emulates real life, and to avoid racism in fiction is to ignore the fact that racism is still a prevalent issue in society. Mass Effect does not encourage players to act on racial stereotypes, instead it leaves it entirely up to the player to decide whether a given action would be appropriate or not. Saying that incorporating any elements of racism into fiction is wrong regardless of what kind of light such elements are portrayed in is stupid and ignorant. It says that rather than trying to show people that racism is wrong we should instead just turn a blind eye to the issue and act as if it isn't there. »Anonymous ONI agent« [COMMS] ] 16:26, August 22, 2012 (UTC) ME is a racist game, that's new! Actually not new, I always read a lot of accusations against the game, but the way some people are talking about the subject here is like the game encourage people to be racists. What's next, ME is prejudice because there isn't fat humans in the game? Geez... Brfritos (talk) 22:00, August 22, 2012 (UTC) :Hey... you're right! There aren't any fat people! Those fatist jerks! I also don't recall seeing any Inuit, so they're definitely racist, and no Hasidic Jews, so they're also anti-Semites. :P :Your point is well-made, Brfritos. And yours as well, Anonymous ONI agent. The ME franchise is, after all, a role-playing franchise, and it does give you opportunities to embrace or repudiate some racist or otherwise questionable actions (the preaching hanar in ME - i.e. call it a big stupid jellyfish or not -, the Terra Firma party and Charles Saracino, and your general relationship with Cerberus in ME2). SpartHawg948 (talk) 08:26, August 23, 2012 (UTC) How delightful, another antiracist Look-how-correct-i-am guy... Haven't you noticed that the saying: "THE MORE YOU HATE IT, THE STRONGER IT GETS" is true? Racism is like, let's say, an error made while writing a letter with pen and paper. You write "examle" instead of "exapmle". What do you do? Put it in brackets and go on. You finish the letter, the reader would notice the correction, and every thing would be nice. But, you go back, grab your pen, then cross it out. Then you do it 3 times again. Nah, that's not good let's scribble it a little with a sinus wave like line. A little more here and there. You try to correct it so hard that all the scribbling will make an ugly stain in the middle of the paper, and it even infects other words. But if you only correct it once but firmly, with 2 fine brackets and a crossing out, it would be the best sollution. 20:00, August 24, 2012 (UTC) :You're overthinking it to the point that it's unhealthy. Calm down, let it go, and move on with your life. »Anonymous ONI agent« [COMMS] ] 23:34, August 26, 2012 (UTC) ::Exactly my thoughts. 11:20, August 27, 2012 (UTC) LOL, how can there be stereotypes for races that don't even exist? I love it you think the Quarian is a "subtle" mirror of Roma people, (subtle as a sledgehammer!). Given the Mass Effect stories are told through Human eyes, you will see a human perspective. The only Volus we see are wealthy types since they have hard time living outside their world, (expensive by default). So the ones we meet are largely well paid, diplomats, businessmen or scientists. Pretty much every race in ME thinks it's great. I really haven't seen the Volus portrayed as particularly bad, just more concerned with achieving their goals. Seems like there are plenty of greedy/evil humans, Asari, Krogans and Batarians in the game. I think your comment shows more personal issue at play rather than anything than exists in the game. Unless the Volus propose building a wall around their planet to keep the rightful owners out... You humans are all racist! ::Wow, a lot of excellent replies here. I consider it as proof of a general perception theory- that YOU SEE stereotypes being used often means nothing more than YOU BROUGHT your perceptions to the game rather than obvious writer intent. ::So what ethnic group are Elcor? or Hanar? or Drell? or. or. or. I see comments about only 2-3 species. ::Perception is funny. We interpret everything through OUR OWN filters. Our brains are wired to see PATTERNS (and then form prejudices from that). Sometimes there is a pattern, and sometimes there isn't. Humans will IMPOSE perception of a pattern where none existed, e.g. the proverbial TV no-reception snow-screen has "hidden patterns". Stare at it a few minutes, and you will probably see something. It's hardwired. ::So I think in a general way, if someone has strong concerns with stereotypes or prejudice they are much more likely to perceive it behind every corner. (You know some people are a little obsessive, right? the politically-correct squad types... nobody here) Sometimes that may be insight (it may really be there), and sometimes it may be projecting. Most people don't seem to be aware their personal filters are imperfect. I'm not being judgmental- everyone's filters are uniquely imperfect. You have to try and be honest with yourself. ::Also- the "weight" or significance you see in each occurrence or incident is influenced by your views and past opinions. Things that agree with your views are "more important" and things that contradict your past views are "less important". It's basic psychology- we want to be right or consistent and it warps how we interpret the world. ::That's the way humans work, so with that in mind look at the evidence as impartially as you can. ::Ask the opposite question- would the game be better off if all species were portrayed with the same homogenized culture? Probably not. So the writers need to develop distinctions, cultural patterns. As humans we already have SO MANY stereotypes about cultural patterns there is no way to avoid everything YOU WILL BRING to the experience. The wandering, impoverished, alien horde that drains local resources will most likely always been unwelcome, that has nothing to do with Roma. But it triggers the "match" signal in our brains. How can they get away from that? ::I am reminded by James Cameron laughing about people telling him Avatar was just propaganda about X, or Y, or Z. The Chinese thought it was about the Mongolian plight, etc. Depending on the global audience they all brought different prejudices to the experience. Of course his own prejudices were at play- but it was also true people projected their own. ::::This is called projection - projecting ones prejudices onto the media. That said, I did have to laugh in ME2 with the tongue-in-cheek reference of the two krogan at Citedal (one obsessed with fish). They are wearing some form of checkered cloth over their humps and mentions to the other how he hates always being considered a terrorist when he visits the Citadel so maybe they should try to find something to blow up. 23:21, July 17, 2014 (UTC) ::I have also seen writers work overtime to make aliens completely ALIEN. With FEW or NO understandable references we can identify with. Not just different, but incomprehensible. Forgive the pun, it alienates the reader/viewer. It usually hurts the story-telling aspects, and I don't think that approach would work here. ::There is some kind of mix with "weird alien stuff" with the Elcor, Hanar, etc. vs. familiar humanoid paradigms like Asari, Turian, etc. Sorry, I don't see Jewish people as short and wearing pressure suits. And they don't all have runny noses and go "plugch!" when they talk. ;) ::I think the writers did a decent job of being fair to the characters and species they created. In terms of depth and breadth, as much as they had a limited canvas to work with. As others have said, there are counter-examples all over the place. Which (as that better reflects reality) makes it more believable or compelling thematically. ::If anything, I think objectively the game content pushes an agenda of acceptance and tolerance of diversity as the most acceptable or correct view. They need something to push against, so maybe some examples are from that background. ::So in this case, it looks like the consensus is it's NOT hot in here, it really is YOU. Or us. ;) ::You humans are all racist! ... I laughed at that, great line. ;D